Dear Stephen,
I’m working with a naturopath that has started treating me for marcons staph bacteria, using Terminalia chebula in a sinus spray. Her results with patients is very promising, she says. She explains that the infection present in the sinuses prevents the body from using essential fats and sugars that allow the body to fight off the lyme. (I’ve used a very simplistic explaination, hers was much more scientific.) My naturopath as been working with a lyme specialist MD in Palo Alto (Dr. Patel) for the past 12 years. Dr. Patel considers this a breakthrough in lyme treatment. I was wondering what your opinion is on marcons. Thank you very much!
I’m working with a naturopath that has started treating me for marcons staph bacteria, using Terminalia chebula in a sinus spray. Her results with patients is very promising, she says. She explains that the infection present in the sinuses prevents the body from using essential fats and sugars that allow the body to fight off the lyme. (I’ve used a very simplistic explaination, hers was much more scientific.) My naturopath as been working with a lyme specialist MD in Palo Alto (Dr. Patel) for the past 12 years. Dr. Patel considers this a breakthrough in lyme treatment. I was wondering what your opinion is on marcons. Thank you very much!
Stephen’s response:
Marcons is not new, I have been writing about multiple-resistant staph over 15 years. As to biofilms: ALL bacteria that can, do make biofilms. It is just one of the methods they use to protect themselves and they have been doing it for, well, many millions of years. Plants and all living organisms have developed methods to respond to biofilms, just as they have developed methods to deal with antibiotic resistance mechanisms such as efflux pumps. The human body is filled with bacterial organisms and they all interact with each other. Coinfection with bartonella (for example) does make treatment of lyme more difficult but it does not make it impossible. You don’t have to eliminate the bartonella before you can treat the lyme. Nor do you have to eliminate the staph before you can treat the lyme. The claims I have read about Marcons are more extreme than I can comfortably endorse. Nearly everyone has resistant staph in their nose – that is part of the function of the nose (and various organs in the throat and the sinuses, and . . . ), that is, to intercept infectious bacteria. If it really bothers you, 30 days of a cryptolepis/sida acuta/alchornea tincture regimen (from woodlandessence.com) will clear it up quite nicely. Or its use as a nasal spray. Terminalia is a good herb and it is active against staph, so use it as well if you want to.
Marcons is not new, I have been writing about multiple-resistant staph over 15 years. As to biofilms: ALL bacteria that can, do make biofilms. It is just one of the methods they use to protect themselves and they have been doing it for, well, many millions of years. Plants and all living organisms have developed methods to respond to biofilms, just as they have developed methods to deal with antibiotic resistance mechanisms such as efflux pumps. The human body is filled with bacterial organisms and they all interact with each other. Coinfection with bartonella (for example) does make treatment of lyme more difficult but it does not make it impossible. You don’t have to eliminate the bartonella before you can treat the lyme. Nor do you have to eliminate the staph before you can treat the lyme. The claims I have read about Marcons are more extreme than I can comfortably endorse. Nearly everyone has resistant staph in their nose – that is part of the function of the nose (and various organs in the throat and the sinuses, and . . . ), that is, to intercept infectious bacteria. If it really bothers you, 30 days of a cryptolepis/sida acuta/alchornea tincture regimen (from woodlandessence.com) will clear it up quite nicely. Or its use as a nasal spray. Terminalia is a good herb and it is active against staph, so use it as well if you want to.
Stephen
Is the tincture you write about: cryptolepis/aida actua/alchornea to be taken orally? Or, is this intranasally?
Thank you,
I did not see an answer on whether this tincture should be taken orally or threw a spray?
This may be too simple of a question, but how do you know if you have Marcons? I have had my eyes burn uncontrollably for over a year now, but my C4A test was normal. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Scott, my doc tested me for Marcons by taking a swab from deep in my sinuses and sending it off to Diagnostic Laboratory Medicine in Bedford, MA.
Through a nasal swab. They stick a very long Q-tip like thing about 2 to 4 inches up your nose and swirl it around for a few seconds. It’s sent to the lab and analyzed for the multiple antibiotic resistant staph and they also do a culture and sensitivity with it. I just had another one done and it came back a large amount. I’m pretty convinced that getting these under control is a key to regaining your health.
So, you can use the Terminalia Chebula powder in a nasal spray? Can you make it yourself? Like with a sinus flush or netty pot?
I have had a sore in my nose for over 20 years. It’s an ulcer like sore that bleed profusely. It has now created a hole in my septum. I have been to many doctors but no one takes me serious. It hurts like crazy and see pain management but that just puts a “bandaid” on the issue. Can you help? I’ve done sinus rinses, saline spray, antibiotics, ointment on the sore.
Thanks!
Hi Stephen,
I have several of your books. I am purchasing the cryptolepis/aida actua/alchornea tincture regimen from Woodland Essense, but I don’t know what dose to give my 13 year old son weighing about 110 lb. Also it would be great to put it in a nasal spay. I wonder if you could tell me how to do this. I appreciate your reply.
Best regards,
Emily
Did anyone ever get an answer about how to make the nasal tincture to treat MARCoNS?
HELLO
DID U GET THE CRYPTOLEPTIS COMBO? I CANT FIND IT ON WOODLANDS SITE?
THANK YOU
TAMMY
You can find a CSA tincture with the three ingredients at Sage Woman Herbs.
Anyone find this combo yet? Please let me know.
Thank you
Cheryl
You can find it:
http://www.woodlandessence.com/herbal.htm
C.S.A. FORMULA
(Cryptolepis, Sida and Alchornea)
~see herbs above~
I have lyme and mold, many years of sinus pain. I would like to try out Stephans recommendation. Would there be any harm in doin this without testing for Marcons?
Hello,
Myself and my son have been positive marcons for years. My head has been so foggy and we been so poor I couldn’t afford the spray. Now our current home flooded so badly from the California floodsthe exposures here are real high both inside our home and outside. I’m living in a school bus due to massive head pressure behind my right eye, with nose bleeds 20-30 minutes a night. I can’t hear out my right ear and vision is really bad. My righteye doesn’t track with my left. The ER last night had no idea about this test. I am assuming I need to somehow get to my lyme specialist for treatments. The road to get to her 3 hrs away has been closed all winter duento the rock and mud slides. Both lanes habe been closed so I’ll have to go the long 7 hrs one way to get to her. Do you have any links that may help me get a doctor here to listen? I’ve been referred to ENTand neurologist. Its so bad it’s like a tumor keeps draining someplace. I feel immense pressure released after the clots and blood come down. The first 2 nights ot was so bad I was gurgling (not on purpose by by force) from the amount of blood. I couldn’t get it to stop flowing down my throat.
There are several other tests your doc should do… read Richie Shoemakers testing protocol.
Hi Rie, I am praying for you. I feel deep compassion.
Liz
I too have a hole in my septum and have MARCoNS. I have only recently found the infection but had the hole for many years. I thought the hole could be from using various steroidial nasal sprays that my doctors loved to prescribe. Couldn’t this make a hole?
Can anyone suggest how to take the Woodlands Essence cryptolepis/aida actua/alchornea herbal formula? How to make it a nasal spray or drops? Does it need to be diluted?
Hi Angie- Did you ever find out the answer to your Terminalia Chebula nasal spray/wash question? What did you end up doing? I have the powder and it doesn’t seem to dissolve in water, so I’d love to know if you figured out a way to use it for MARCONS.
Rie,
Your description about floods and nosebleeds leads me to believe you may have had serious toxic mold exposure. It is my understanding that many with Lyme are seriously affected by other biotoxins, such as mycotoxins from toxic mold. Beware of any practitioner who ignores mold concerns and tries to persuade you that every symptom you have is from Lyme. Educate yourself. Go to http://www.survivingmold.com and read what Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker has to say about what he calls Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome (CIRS) and how mold and Lyme and mycoplasma, chlamydia, EBV, etc are all connected. It all involves genetics and the immune system. If you have mold, you will have to get into a clean environment and treat the mold as well as the Lyme and other infections.
I also have marcons – actually 4 bacterias cultured deep in my sinus with 3 abscesses (pockets of infection). I too have a hole in my septum – and the ENT told me yes the bacterias can eat away at the tissues over time. I also have immune deficiency (which I believe is very under diagnosed which I am now being treated for) and restricted flow in my sinus making it impossible for the bacterias to drain, and herbs\abx\nebulizer\sprays and washes cannot reach them and they. I am going to have the infections cleaned and the restricted areas opened via balloon in a couple of weeks. If you have a lot of sinus problems a good ENT is worth their weight in gold. The “swab” or sample they took from me was so much higher up than any regular doc could reach bc of their equipment, I now do not trust swabs as I have had many and all came back normal. If you have bacteria(s) deep in the sinus (which is not normal) it can cause a LOT of problems and feed\weaken your system with bacteria and toxins.
Sounds like you are full of mycotoxin. Go to realtimelabs.com and find a doctor in your area that will test you. You have to start binding out the mycotoxin and then you treat other things. Until you get that mycotoxin load down – nothing else will work. DO NOT go back into your home – it is likely the source of the toxins (as is possibly all of your belongings including clothing). You cannot get better until you are in a mycotoxin\mold free environment. Some Burhner herbs are excellent for detox\treating infections but you have to BIND OUT the toxins first. Check out Dr. Neil Nathan on Seventh Wave Network for amazing mold info. The majority of doctors DO NOT understand. You can get better but first get to a safe place, it may mean taking NOTHING with you – and then get on a good binding protocol. Good luck!
I just purchased the CSA Formula and intend on making/diluting it with distilled water in a 2 ounce nasal spray bottle. I dont see any comments from experienced users of this, so my thought is to dilute it and work my way up to a tolerable dosage and may also take a small dose via mouth also but first I want to get it directly at the site where I need it. its possible to get a herx from this even thru a nasal spray bottle.
Can you share the ratio of water to tincture you used? I’m planning to make drops but don’t know how concentrated to make the solution.
Leigh, did you have any luck making and using the drops?
Hi
What is the ratio you used.
I have bad head pressure tinnitus ect
The doctor gives a nasal smear test. The sample is taken from deep in the sinuses. I saw six ENT doctors none of them had any idea why my sinuses were so swollen, so the chief of ENT gave me a steroid wash to wash my sinuses so then I went to a mold expert that studied with Shoemaker he administered the test. Came back high MARCONS Finally an answer that made sense. BEGS spray with EDTA to break the biofilm a couple of rounds and I was cured. The BEGS spray is some really strong stuff no joke
Buhner explains how to make the nasal spray on page 347 of Herbal Antibiotics. Add up to 10 drops to a 1 oz nasal spray bottle. Add pure water. You can find his recipe for sinus infections in the book.
I saw 7 ENT’s four of them did nasal smear always negative It was a naturopathic doctor that did nasal smear and used an independent lab. Resulted in MARCoNS high positive. I was on BEGS then the ND thought it was too toxic. Put me on EDTA and colloidal silver mix . Then I made my own mixture Xylitol sea salt baking soda and 1/4 drop tea tree peppermint and oregano oil in two cups of sterilized water used in neti pot
First, I’ve heard of Terminalia chebula in a sinus spray so I might add that to my regime.
Do you mind sharing the name of the mold expert you went to?
Did you ever resolve your eye problems?
I’m starting to think I have marcons. No ENT can ever help me. I’ve had bloody noses endlessly, weight gain, major crusting/lesion and now nearly my whole septum is gone. It started with a tiny hole which the ENT ignored and now it’s gone! I have fatigue and I definitely work in a place with mold. Can anyone tell me what kind of specialist I need to see? My ENT is worthless, as is my primary. Please help.
I would say a biotoxin illness specialist — and stop working in a mold infested place as soon as possible! Not sure where you are located but here is a starting place for finding a doctor that knows about mold treatment: https://www.survivingmold.com/shoemaker-protocol/Certified-Physicians-Shoemaker-Protocol
How do you get a 1/4 drop of an EO?
Check out the Shoemaker website surviving mold. He also has listing for specialists
Any idea of adult nasal dosing with C.S.A. from Woodland? I’m Reading through Dr. Buhner’s book, but haven’t come across it yet. Thank you.
Very interesting comments. I agree that Staph epi is all over the body, however the strain that has multiple resistance to antibiotics otherwise known as MarCons is the problem. Standard cultures can not exactly identify this strain and it may be resistant to more than a few antibiotics. If the sinuses are blocked, swollen , or stenotic then no amount of nasal antibiotic irrigation will get into the sinuses. You probably are just swallowing the fluid. Also sampling is important as the anterior nasal compartment can be different from the deep sinus compartments. However, the pattern I see over and over again is once the Marcons has been eliminated, the VCS test normalizes.
It is not the MARCoNS that is the biggest issue, it is the biofilm that is produced by the antibiotic resistant coag. neg. staph. Microbiology DX test for both. Urinary mycotoxin testing doesn’t tell us anything other than you have had some exposure, and that could have come from food. If you don’t detox well perhaps you’ll have a negative result and think all is well! Far better to consider what your immune system is doing; it is not the offender itself but our response to it we need to know e.g. MARCoNS we have little/no defence if biofilms are being created and will likely have low aMSH too. What does urinary toxin tell us about our response? Nothing at all unfortunately at this time. Hence the reason for considering immune system markers on blood testing.
Hi! I’m curious what your symptoms were and if you are still feeling better today. Do you recall the exact protocol you used and where to purchase the sprays? Thank you.
How did u treat it. I’m sure that’s what I have now